46 Replies to “Aikido vs MMA | ft. Ray Butcher • Aikido of the Future • EP02”

  1. "Atemi accounts for 99% of Aikido."

    As quoted in Traditional Aikido(1974) by Morihiro Saito, p. 38

    – copied from wikiquote

    So why are so few schools training atemi waza (striking techniques)?

    When O Sensei said "when the enemy approaches go up to greet them" I don't think he meant try to shake their hand while they punch you in the face. I believe he was talking about interrupting the attack with an attack of your own. A punch is most dangerous just short of full extension. Punch that arm before it reaches that point and you combine their force with your own and potentially weaken following punches. It's the same thing as muy Thai fighters kicking the thigh.

    Aikido should be "limb hunting" less and hitting more. Aikido teachers should stop running dojos like churches.

    It's a martial art. Ergo, teaching and training in a combat effective way does no disservice to it, the cultish way it's treated now is the problem.

  2. There's nothing wrong with practicing Aikido for its own sake. I studied Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido for five years without any expectation that it would be a martial art. I’d studied a bit of karate in the past and decaded of T’ai Chi Ch’uan before Aikido. In my one street fight I felt confident and relaxed and successfully defeated a (supposedly) black belt in Taekwondo without even breathing hard. I give credit to my karate training to know what to expect from the black belt, but it was my T’ai Chi training that taught me to relax and reflexively respond to attacks. That was long before my Aikido training. If I were going to try to bring something of Aikido into MMA I’d start not with trying to use wrist locks and throws, but with moving on ki. That I would imagine would give you an edge. You need boxing and kicking techniques, but knowing and feeling when your opponent is about to attack would be very valuable.In the dojo where I trained we spent many hours practicing moving on ki.

  3. Now I have to say that this was the most enjoyable videos/interviews you made for myself. Ray said all the things I talk about in Aikido and other Martial Arts. That's why I've always asked "Why do we have to put on gear, get into a ring and PROVE on youTube if it works or not"? As I've stated before, there are many things about traditional Aikido I make adjustments to still, but it's what you have to do, practice and make the adjustments. It's not necessary to prove anything to anyone. Great video, Thanks

  4. I can see where ray is coming from on the issue of finding solutions to individual problems by looking outside aikido .A lot of responsibility ultimately falls on the individual to understand their own physical psychological and emotional shortcomings and issues and the barriers these present to achieving high levels in aikido and many other endeavours .If for example a aikidoist is terrified of getting punched and has no experience in this area then he or she will have great difficulty entering in a decisive confident manner and may benefit from a few months boxing lessons bringing this new ability back to their original practice .likewise a grounding in such disciplines
    as bjj can accustome them to the psychological and physical challenge of being grabbed by a powerful grappler yoga meditation strength training and many other disciplines can also be used to help deal with various issues with fear of getting hit composure under fire improving posture and balance .getting used to close intense grappling and so on.High level Aikido demands the highest levels of honest self appraisal the acceptance of personal responsibility and the shaping away of delusion and ego.Sounds a lot like a true Martial art to me.

  5. In my personal experience Aikido will be all you need for 90% of all real life situations. I have found that as my opponents skill increases I begin leaning more and more on jujitsu.

  6. Your guest has lost his mind. It is not about if Aikido works in MMA or the cage it is rather does it work or is it effective in fighting or as a MARTIAL art.

  7. The vast majority of Aikido practitioners today do what Osensei did at the end of his life. The Aikikai method of the art. Not very practical. If you back track the art to the "hell dojo" practitioners you have a much more practical and applicable version of the art. If you follow it to is roots you'll find a very combat efficient version for it's time in history. Follow the path of doing, yawara/jujutsu – aikijujutsu – aikijutsu, then live aikido. It's impossible to get to the end with out the entire journey. There is no easy path. Right now MMA/BJJ is a teenager, ignorant, arrogant and doesn't believe anyone older then them knows what is right for now. To bad Bruce Lee died at 33. He might have evolved into a truly historic martial artist and not left us with half finished ideas.

  8. Hi man. Really enjoying your videos. Nice to see open minds, healthy discussion and practical application. I don't know how far you got looking into 'Tomiki Aikido' but I'd like to point you in the direction of Shodokan (once more) and the sport format of Randori. Our technical director is Tetsuro Nariyama Shihan, he has an excellent book translated into English called 'Aikido Randori'. I feel that some of your questions have been or are being answered by Shodokan Aikido. 🙂 One of the nicest videos online I have posted below, notice how the players counter each others moves, often to great effect. Of course this is an aikido bout, not MMA, as your guest would agree, but there are many interesting applications non the less. 🙂 Not sure if you are ever in the UK, but you would be more than welcome to come and train at one of our clubs. https://youtu.be/WoQQlOEnSFI

  9. Tips if u don't follow Aikido will never work with u :

    1) Practice punches and kicks those are actually the atemi in aikido .
    2) No atemi no Aikido no matter what . ( timing is important )
    3) Practice ground techniques its also a part of Aikido . With atemi it will look like an mma fight .
    4) Sparr to build experience .
    It's a martial arts not a dance .. wish all good luck ❤

  10. He is completely right bull u talking to ….ur problem is u keep blaming that art cuz no offense but u have no confidence in ur akido ….you should just learn another art

  11. I think it is even worse to the aikido teacher than the student. The student can go learn other things with other teachers. But what do will an aikido teacher do diferently to modernize and still preserve the essense of the art. The art is not just the technique, but if the only thing "useful" in aikido is the philosophy or mindset, then it will lose a lot of it's identity. To be fair, when bjj could only be developed because it got halfworld away from traditional masters that would not allow for it to florish scorning it as a bastardization of their art.
    At some point, for martial arts to evolve, you got to break with tradition.

  12. I think it is a matter of awareness. You have to be aware of other arts and exploit their weaknesses. Your training in aikido failed you because it didn't teach to be aware of other types of attacks. So you were looking for attacks that weren't there in striking. Not to say that aikido doesn't work, it just that you didn't see how it can be applicable against strikers. You seem to be scared of punches too in the video, so you couldn't utilize your irimi. Put on a helmet and gloves and spar with someone. I'm sure you will find ways to utilize your aikido. Good luck 😊

  13. I use Aikido body movements in bjj all the time. I push with my hand and then push with my elbow, moving around a point of centre. This always works. In terms of Aikido technique I've used sankyo but when you can't get your hip into the movement then it's hard to use. In terms of fighting on the street I've used ikkyo and sankyo and kotegaesh. The main problem with aikido is wrist grabbing. As soon as you walk into a dojo and people are grabbing wrists – leave!

  14. I'll echo some of the thoughts below — don't "try to grab" someone's arm/wrist over and over — that's not the Aikido I learned.

    irimi – get right in their face and out of the position they want you in
    atemi – knock the SHIT of their face with an elbow or drop into the side of their knee hard enough to break it
    THEN apply appropriate technique to disempower attacker

    Aikido training is necessarily theatric to avoid harming each other but in a real fight you have to go all the way. Proper Aikido is completely inappropriate for a jousting sport as the intention of every move is to break/dislocate joints extremely violently.

    The Aikido technique isn't what throws someone over by their wrist, the technique is intended to nearly rip their arm/wrist off in a manner where the human body is naturally weak — the Uke must flip over to PREVENT that. When done in a real fight it must be executed at full force and if the opponent doesn't flip their arm is wrecked, they aren't going to go flying.

    Highly experienced Uke/Naga might be able to practice at full force and speed but even still they have to know what is being practiced or they will seriously injure one another if one even slightly slips up. I've seen serious injuries at practice speeds.

    But you are never going to win anything grabbing at someone's wrist — that's the exact opposite of Aikido which is mean to use THEIR power, their own force against them by being in the wrong place (for them) at the right time.

    I don't think Aikido will ever be viable in MMA because too many of the techniques are impossible (gloves) or against the rules and it just takes a lifetime to tune oneself to the level necessary in the reality and chaos of combat.

    But maybe practice more irimi/atemi with your Uke and at least see how that goes?

  15. Lets get real about it. If you want to look graceful throwing people that flow with the moves and is not very effective in a real life situation, study Aikido!!

  16. Yes it can, but it needs to be heavily adapted

    Aikido guys are too passive, they need to instigate with more of a wrestling stance and when someone counter grabs you then you can employ aikido

    Hands are too low. Due to the heavy emphasis on standing grappling hands should be high by the head and be ready to grab

    Footwork is slept on

    Not enough sparring either

    I’ve seen some GOOD aikido guys but most are shut because they stand around and let you get punched in the face

  17. Video Games Recon is right and what Ray Butcher said also is: Aikijutsu was not designed for an MMA context but for the battlefields of Japan during the Samurai era. The effectiveness of Aikido should be tested for what it was designed for. For a context where warriors had to grab each other wrist to prevent an attack from a sword and where people were dressed as Japanese warriors were.

  18. @AikidoSiauliai I am really appreciating what you're doing and it's very good that you're exploring martial arts in this way… however I totally agree with Ray: Aikido is not meant for competition or professional fighting and you're never gonna win any match with a professional with the way Aikido is taught normally. And that's perfectly fine! Aikido forms people, not fighters, it's a tool for personal growth, and its principles and training are very helpful for self-defense, but it's not meant to be used that way, and that's the Founder's will. I will keep following you to see where you arrive, but really, if you think that practising Aikido will make you Batman… well, that's not what it's meant for. However, as Ray said, you can cross-train and apply Aikido principles to actual fighting and sort of become, well, an MMA fighter of your own. There's no shame in that, if that's what you want, just know that what happened to you would happen to anyone: if a boxer steps in a MMA ring he loses, if an MMA fighter steps in a boxing competition he loses, if a tennis player steps in a volleyball tournament he loses… they're different worlds and there's nothing wrong with that.

  19. I think an important aspect of aikido is it's focus on harmony. The problem is that without conflict the harmony is meaningless, likewise going to an aikido dojo and training with perfect harmony ruins the purpose of training for it. It doesn't teach you how to absolve conflict into harmony, it just teaches you to move in harmony. I think the best way to employ aikido would be to attempt to make the opponent 'run' away as it will take their mind off of possible techniques. If they don't run away you should attack the body and head in order to drop them. So using iriminage if they don't move and using kote gaeshi if they do move. We need more practitioners to put on head gear and 'spar' you could make it safe by limiting which techniques the tori/shite can use to just a handful of techniques. We should also aim to find pitfalls of techniques and possible transitions to give aikidoka a better plan than trying the same technique and praying it'll work.

  20. Aikido was designed to work against the angry average guys, not against pro-fighters.
    If you want to defend yourself against normal people, Aikido is great.
    If you want a career and money, MMA is great (you can even make money from Aikido,later on, not that much but still)
    If you want to defend yourself from normal people and you are into MMA you are wasting time.(the effort is just too big)
    If you want to be a pro-fighter and you want a lot of money and you train into Aikido you are wasting time.

  21. Sorry for the repeat post. Today I was out just walking around had a nice coffee, I watched a child being guided by a woman, the child was blind, I thought bless the one above I can see, later on I walked past a woman in a wheel chair, I thought thank the one above I can walk. Does it matter? stop this one martial art better than another. There are so many factors. First, its unlikely your going to be attacked, 3% chance, OK depending on which country etc but thank the one above its rare, its even MORE rare to be attacked by a fighter, someone trained in martial arts. Why? because we change (most do not all) we respect people, we become anti violence. The video is meant as a wake up call to Aikido people. Don't pretend else your fooling yourself and students. I subscribe to two channels, this one and Aikido Flow… https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClhLazRwMSdXeF-MBFUo4gg these guys are good. I give a nod to https://youtu.be/lMiE45OmQNM these Czech Aikido peeps. This is realistic. Your not going to have a self defense situation with Conor McGregor. I come from a Karate background, a beginner at Aikido, but I can see it use. Immediately its helped my Karate. Relaxation, centering and when I dont want to overly hurt the attacker i.e. teach him a lesson… back off. But more, so much more, Aikido helps me connect. Its what I was saying we we rarely use our martial arts to defend ourselves, even more rare against a fighter like MMA. So what is a martial art? respect humanity. That is what I see Aikido. Before I started Aikido would I have noticed the blind child, would I have noticed the woman in a wheel chair? Its about energy, while we have it, while we can MOVE, bless the one above. There is more to life than a KO. Love your life, love your wife.

  22. First of all, I really respect what you're doing. I'm a TKD black belt and have been looking to crosstrain, having learned some hapkido and some tai chi. The more research I do, the more I appreciate that there is no such thing as "pure" art. Every master it seems puts their stamp on their art. Bruce Lee creating JKD is an example, where he took elements from Wing Chun and added other things he liked, like Korean kicks and Filipino nunchucks. But there are other examples – the tai chi style I was learning was a derivative of the Yang style – which itself is a derivative of the Chen style. Aikido was not developed for cage fighting. But it was developed out of aikijiujutsu. So even then, someone changed the intention. ITF TKD was started by a second-degree karate black belt. There can be criticisms for arts itself and their origins, but that's not to say that all disciples of that art are wrong. I think the question for you would be what could your aikido be?

  23. Pressure to do not train other martial arts? Well, people who says that kind of stuff doesn't know any Aikido history. Tohei was an amazing judoca before Aikido, Tada sensei studied even the bow.

  24. Great interview I would give more likes if I could. For a start it made me realize that even if I read about Aikido for some years, and I've always been fascinated by it, I haven't really grasped its philosophy. About the ongoing debate I think making a formal distinction between fighting sports and martial arts would help. For a start there has been no relevant tradition of martial arts in the west like there has been in Asia, and even when there is something somewhat similar in the west it is usually very confined geopgraphically. Boxing, pankration and wrestling are not really martial arts but fighting sports. Martial arts are mostly an Asian thing in many cases of military origin and designed for a practical martial purpose but that as they fell in the monastic and private domain tended to become more and more about self cultiivation. And if you research the debate on effectiveness it is a centuries old one. Shaolin monks did engage in military expeditions a thousand years or more ago and as far as I read there is no record of Shaolin techniques at the time, as it became a monastic exercise doubts start arising about its effectiveness. Still it survived all these centuries. So traditional martial arts were blended with spirituality, philosophy, eastern medicine, alchemy and are only in a very small part related with fighting sports which are practical and about fighting in ring competition.

  25. 5:42 – you pose a question that ignores and/or shows a complete lack of understanding of everything he has just been talking about up to that point. Serious fail.

  26. Your entire basis for the video is flawed: you're assuming MMA and "real life fight situations" (whatever the fvck that's supposed to be) as normative. Why are you falling for the MMA whiners trap? Do you not understand the difference bwteen a martial art and a fighting system? The way you talk, I suspect you don't. Aikido doesn't have a problem. If it wants to be a martial art then let it be a martial art. If someone wants to study something that can "work in MMA" (ie. commercial sport competition fighting) then great – but that's not a "failing" of aikido if aikido includes things that aren't applicable to "working in MMA". I mean, are you going to advocate ditching all sword & knife work from aikido? Why not: it's no use in MMA, after all.

    You simply haven't thought your ideas through and you've fallen into the common trap for people with only a superficial understanding of what martial arts are about.

  27. Track and field is the best self defense skill, also, if you are near a lake or a river, swimming can save your life. I don't see Michael Phelps getting punch by a bunch of guys even if they are rowing in a boat.

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